New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance!

New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance!

by Richiem » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:35 pm

Folks ive just fitted a new stage 1 kkk16 thats just been rebuilt and its not running right ! Not sure if its the turbo or more likely a leak somewere ! Ive just took it off again and everything looks spot on ( no play at all in the shaft and the fins look mint) As soon as i hit the early part of the boost at 2,200 rpm i get this woooo noise from the front that ive had before when the fins have been damaged and its letting air by, cant see anything wrong with it so id like to check for other possible causes before sending it back to builder and waiting for it to return. Ive looked at the boost pipes and they all seem intact along with the vaccum hoses. Wondered if ive missed something?
Cheers Rich
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Chavtastic » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:38 pm

Check for air leaks with an aerosol spray like carb cleaner, you should head the revs change if you spray a leaking area.

Failing that remove the vac lines from it and see if that helps (no interference from amal/ecu)

Failing that, use a handbrake shoe spring, or a steel cable tie or something to hold the wastegate shut temporarily - this will force the turbo to boost. If you still get no boost then it's f*cked!
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Richiem » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:14 pm

Right , resolved some of the stuff today with the help of my pal martin paris! ( top fella)) Was gonna swap turbos over and have a run to see if the sound was the turbo or indeed a leak somewere! Before that i got the great idea to check the actuator! ( good move) Tested with foot pump and it held no boost at all!! Seriously knackered! Od tho coz it use to work fine on the last turbo!
Guessing now i have a stronger unit it couldnt handle it. The last turbo had battered fins on the exhaust side when rebuilt.
Fitted a stronger actuator with added spring and that seems to have sorted the the wooo sound ( guess the actuator was simply letting the wastegate open instantly !! Fitted a boost gauge up and went out for a test run . Now the turbo was boosting on the gauge and getting there quite early , but i wasnt getting any extra power and no throw back into seat until 4000+ rpm ( very odd)
Its only a standard unit i have built and is made up to stage 1 with 360 bearings and race seals!
Im guessing either the turbo is bossting completely different or i may have a slight leak somewere or a vac pipe on wrong or something?? Any ideas would be most helpful. dont understand why its showing boost strong and early on the gaude but not getting the power until right late?? Best thing is though , it seems the turbo is actually ok!!
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Richiem » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:52 pm

Got an interesting question to ask regarding this issue, Ive had it suggested that the swapped over exhaust i fitted at the exact same time as the turbo could be the cause of my new turbos lack of performance? I have a sports cat on this new unit and ive been told if its blocked then it will cause the same symptoms as im having right now! Weird cos i was only saying the other day that this new exhaust sounds really loud in the mid section??
Just wondered if this is just gossip or if theres any truth in the theory ..
Any answers worth a look into right now tbh
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Richiem » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:27 pm

Have arranged for the turbo to go back to the source who seems quite ok to strip it back and take alook. Tbh, rather hoping that he finds something up so i can put this whole mare behind me , Think i might just swap over the cat section before hand and fit back the de cat section i had in . Just out of curiousity
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Callyman » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:19 pm

Have you got the amal valve connected correctly?
Is it working?
Is the recirc valve working?
Are you 100% sure all pipework/intercooler is air tight?
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Richiem » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:28 am

Cant do up the intercooler pipework any tighter tbh Andy, all the amal valve pipes are on the right way around and connected tight with cable ties to be sure. Will dug out my spare amal valve just to be sure as its an easy swap out . Was working fine last before engine dropped !Im gonna look at the sensors you mentioned before to see if they are int he right place but ill be shocked if there not tbh. Im sure ones red and ones black ( ones charge temp sensor or something)) Wondering if maybe one of the hard pipes from actuator is split ( worth a check ) Although i did check them properly recently and wrapped them after ..
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Callyman » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:57 am

Hard pipe from actuator?


Also, check the clamps on turbo to intercooler pipework,
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Richiem » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:55 pm

Ive even removed the pipe from the actuator Andy and this should of given me un restricted boost but no difference ( strange)
Need to find away to pressurise the system or do a smoke test ( if i can find somewere that does that!! Thinking of fitting my eds cooler and pipework i have just to rule out its not the old stock cooler .
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Callyman » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:17 pm

You now want to put smoke through it?

Make yay mind up mate lol :lol:

ironic aye?
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Richiem » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:32 pm

Got alot done today to gain a lot of results. had all the intercooler pipework off and replaced with my eds 8.1 cooler and pipework to see if there was a change ( there was not) still got the same wooo noise from up front ( this rules out the boost pipes and intercooler being the source.. Changed over actuators and also swapped the hard pipes from the amal valve and still no difference ( sort of rules them out also) The sound seems deffo from the turbo itself and ive now read alot of post from others that get the same issue when a rebuild has been done ( though normally on a diesel car ?? ) This also seems to effect performance though not always!
Some link it to poor balancing or air escaping from the unit via the penny valve or return valve.
I have found that the turbo does get boost if i turn the actuator up alot but its not until higher rev ranges ( over 4500rpm ) i can feel a build up before then but its very gradual and not like you would expect from a kkk16 but more like a diesel van , then it suddenly comes to life at 4500rpm along with some missfire.
Turbo is now coming off and going back to builder as im rather sure my car is ok and the unit isnt.
Just to be sure my buddy ronnie is coming over on the weekend and we will perform a turbo swap of his le turbo for 100% answers !
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Callyman » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:04 pm

makes sense.
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Richiem » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:45 pm

have checked for oil passing and all ok! Did everything as detailed by the seller to be sure the oil was up and passing through the oil feed and down through the turbo before running with plugs in and even checked the amount of oil passing through over a 1 minute cycle and everything was spot on .. .
I had the turbo of the other day to check and see if the impella and shaft was still moving freely and it was .
There was no play at all in the shaft and both sides spun freely and there was no visible damage on the fins ect.
I reckon its out of balance and maybe letting by somewere . Last time i had a turbo that made that same sound ( although louder ) it was because air was passing by the impella due to damaged fins. The fact its wooing says theres something a miss
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Richiem » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:03 pm

Been over everything now and have now got the unit boosting ok but with the actuator turned up alot more.. Maybe this is ok but im not sure , the thing that gets me is the dam wooing sound when boosting ? this seems to be deffo from the unot now as ive had another one on and it doesnt do it when fitted??? Mine is off yet again and before sending it back to builder ive had another look over , Something Andy suggested looking at has drawn my attention! Have noticed theres some play in the penny valve and you can lift one side of it enough to get air through when closed?? Not sure if this again is normal wondered if anyone could confirm? Seems im looking air through some part of the unit so this seems likely and the only thing i can see that could be the cause! The rest of the unit looks mint with no play in the shaft and all the impella fins look mint ( normally the cause of wooing sound on other units ive owned)) Cheers Rich
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Re: New turbo charger woo ing on boost and pants performance

by Richiem » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:19 pm

the actuator seems spot on now after i replaced it , tbh i thought id solved this dam thing when i found the one i had fitted was proper crap and replaced it , the new one has a spring attached and is right tight , Thing is when shut i can move around the penny valve without moving the actuator! No idea if this movement is ok and maybe how its meant to be but i can lift it up a small amount when sealed with no to much effort Not sure if it should be shut tight or it is meant to have this movement ?
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