Have matrix alloys killed v6 steering ?

[crinklebender]

Picked up a v6 with these wheels

These Wolfrace matrix 17" with 215/40/17

<a href="http://www.clubcalibra.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3405" target="_blank">http://www.clubcalibra.net/forum/attachmen...tachmentid=3405</a>

Car got thru MOT, runs fine, apart from steering judder at all speeds. Like the wheels just never settle on the road.

can these cause strain through the steering and wear out, bushes, rack etc.

Reading through all the previous posts on "judders" it could be that the previous owner fitted the wrong wheels for this car. (The offset of the alloys is ET35, below the minimum 40 someone else posted)






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[swchoi]

4 wheel alignment service and balance first.

[blue redtop]

i had those wheels on my 8v and the steering was terrable.on a slightly uneven road it was a nightmare,igot the tracking and all sorted and it was still the same,
i dont know what the offset was on them,might be that.

[ice man]

It's either a buckled wheel / wheels or missing spiggot rings.

offset won't make it judder.

Out of balance won't affect it at 'all' speeds - only noticeable at higher speeds.

[crinklebender]

Spigots are there. From the previous poster with the same wheels it looks like the problem is the ET. I presume this is because the steering on a car such as calibra was designed for the more standard wheels of that time.

From another poster

"If the alloys have the wrong ET it may have put excess loads on steering components, which may be worn as a result. If the ET is wrong it can cause 'tramlining' - the sensation of the wheels trying to 'go their own way', following grooves in the road & trying to go straight on round corners."

seems i am not the only one with this problem

<a href="http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=wolfrace+tramlining&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&...=utf-8&oe=utf-8</a>

good tutorial on the subject.

<a href="http://planetsoarer.com/offset/offset.htm" target="_blank">http://planetsoarer.com/offset/offset.htm</a>

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[blue redtop]

hi and like i said before i got all the tracking and everything sorted on mine and it was still impossable to drive on a bumpy road at any speed without it feeling like it wanted to jump in the headge,
it must be the offset,
i would change the wheels,

[swchoi]

It could be break discs.

[crinklebender]

Primary problem is tramlining. As the car speeds up judder kicks in. I thought the tramlining was a low speed version of judder.

Looks like it will be easier to pick up a set of turbo wheels, then expensive fixes for the offset problems.

Hopefully Selling the matrix wheels should pay for fixing any damage they did. These wheels attract too much attention anyway. Some kids tried to nick them on what looks like impulse last week. I came back to find the car collapsed on its front wheel.

wolfrace hardly refer to these problems on their website. I went into a wolfrace dealer. The owner didnt know about offset problems, (aside from arch rubbing).

If anyone is trying to get shot of vauxhall v6 or preferably turbo wheels, give us a pm. My location is glasgow.


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[ROG]

Itl be just as there wider, causes tramlining and feels much bumpyer through the steering as theres less tyre
If something like antroll bar links/ wishbone bushes were worn the wheels would make it feel worse and the wheels would make the fault wear quicker,
Id keep the wheels and change the rollbar links and wishbones

[crinklebender]

This kind of clearly highlights the alloys are the problem, each front wheel fights each other, toe out when moving, toe in braking. He even refers to the calibra with the problem happening with the same width and offset as the matrix alloys.

<a href="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/betyouaint/offset.htm" target="_blank">http://homepage.ntlworld.com/betyouaint/offset.htm</a>

The Vauxhall Calibra has an ideal offset of ET49 (ET from the German, "Einpresstiefe", meaning "insertion depth". I bought a second Calibra Turbo which came fitted with a lovely set of OZ Polaris 17" alloys. It was obvious from the way they protruded from the arches that the offset was not quite right. In fact, they had an offset of ET35 which meant that the steering pivot point was 14mm away from the fore-aft centreline of the wheel. Given that the tyre width was 215mm there was effectively 93.5mm of tyre width to the inside of the pivot and 121.5mm to the outside, a difference of 28mm. All was fine whilst taking it easy but I noticed that whenever I accelerated or braked hard the car would squirm and twitch all over the place. Had I not already owned another Calibra Turbo for some years I might have dismissed this as normal. The final straw came when driving quickly over a humped back bridge the car tried to throw itself violently into the wall. It was something that I had done in my other Calibra a hundred times or more without incident. Shortly after I sold the alloys, ironically to another Vauxhall owner who didn't care for my advice.

Obviously, the closer to the correct offset a wheel is, the less the handling will be affected. In addition, on a 4WD car the acceleration forces are divided more equally across 4 wheels instead of just 2 and hence the effect of incorrect offset is not as dramatic. I realise that a shiny new set of cheap alloys from eBay might enhance your cars aesthetic appeal but will it still look so cool wrapped around a tree...!!!?
ush.

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[Tim2001]

That would be mickm's website give him a pm on here he might answer not around that much at the moment.

[crinklebender]

<!--QuoteBegin-Tim2001+--><div class='quotetop'>(Tim2001)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That would be mickm's website give him a pm on here he might answer not around that much at the moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



The time for dissent has passed. Look how much evidence has converged. Two people saying the same thing. One about the same wheels, the other about the same offset and width.

The wheels are wrong. Just too damn wrong. Pity as they really sell this car. :sob: Sure i could replace every steering bit, and then things "might" be ok for a while.

It will just make the steering so tight, that the older parts like the rack and driveshafts start to bear strain.

SAlesmen misinformation abounds. AN alloy wheel seller on ebay is saying that an offset of ET35 is fine for a whole list of cars including calibras.

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[ValverRob]

How can I findout the offest of my alloys? I'm having what I think is the same problems and I've changed everything else and its still the same only not quite as bad, alternatively, are there any nice flat 5 spoke or multispoke alloys that have the correct offest? (mines 4 stud btw)

Thanks
Rob

[crinklebender]

<!--QuoteBegin-ValverRob+--><div class='quotetop'>(ValverRob)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How can I findout the offest of my alloys? I'm having what I think is the same problems and I've changed everything else and its still the same only not quite as bad, alternatively, are there any nice flat 5 spoke or multispoke alloys that have the correct offest? (mines 4 stud btw)


Thanks
Rob<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Dunno much about alloys. I got them with the car, or i should i say, i got the car free with the wheels.

The guides on the subject say the ET is stamped on the inside of wheel rim.

[ValverRob]

Had a quick hunt about and found out they are fox 4 evo, and it would appear they are available in ford fitment @ et37 (obviously not that then!) or vaxuhall and a load of others @ et35 or et42

Been out and had a look around the inside of the wheels but cant see the offset, I'll wait until tomorrow and take one off to have a proper look!