Understeer
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modded calibra on ebay needs TLC
Can anything be done about the understeer of the Cali?
Will firmer front shocks improve the situation?
Will firmer front shocks improve the situation?
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davamb
Hello, All the same Robert with your advice, Depending on davamp's driving style whakking on some 17" rims and lowering it( lowering the centre of gravitey) might not help! I mean has he checked for soggey suspetion bushes? front and rear, Are they cheap tyres he/she is wearing? With the wieght of a cally going in to a corner the front tyre in question would have a lot of weight transference being put on it,Would it not? (Whilst turning and accelerating the front of the car lifts reducing traction.) How about either backing of the accelerator to stabalize the car or tapping the brakes to transfer the weight to the front?[( more grip)could possibley result in oversteer], Personally I think driver error is more to blame than the cally it's self.
Sorry if I seem opinionated but knowledge of physics is a basic requirerment of fast driving, or self preservation!!
Hope you are having a nice evening!
Sorry if I seem opinionated but knowledge of physics is a basic requirerment of fast driving, or self preservation!!
Hope you are having a nice evening!
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Mac
Hi Robert, Chinkiller,
Firstly I (Dave) am male.
Now that the gender issues are out of the way time to get on with it.
I guess from your response Chinkiller that you think the Cali is a fine handler.
Maybe I just expect more or push harder at times, I dunno.
I do like to have a bit of fun at times, with all due respect to my and other's safety.
I also like to explore the limits so that I know what might happen in an emergency.
My tyres aren't brand new, but they're not crap.
So if this is the only possible reason,
I'll have to live with them unitl they're ready to ditch.
I've been brought up on front-drivers from Mini 850s
through Cooper S, Lancia Beta and Alfa Sprint.
All were pretty tidy handlers. The Cali doesn't come close.
Maybe it's a matter of being a heavier car, or the wheelbase / track ratio, I dunno.
But traditional front-driver style of
"do your braking before the corner and accelerate all the way through"
that I've always used just doesn't seem to work well with the Cali.
It's ok up to a point but then things start to get understeery.
Maybe it's just the front tyres beginning to give way, I don't know.
It just feels different to me than what I'd get with (say) the Beta.
I've tried simultaneous left-foot braking and acceleration to squat the front with limited success,
but this is illegal here and none too kind on the driveshafts, CVs and gearbox etc.
Suspension all looks ok, compression / rebound test is ok,
but maybe the wishbone bushes are worth a bit of a look.
I know that a poorly seated oil filter has leaked a bit over the RHS ones in the past,
this might have damaged the rubber, dunno.
Must investigate further...
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Firstly I (Dave) am male.
Now that the gender issues are out of the way time to get on with it.
I guess from your response Chinkiller that you think the Cali is a fine handler.
Maybe I just expect more or push harder at times, I dunno.
I do like to have a bit of fun at times, with all due respect to my and other's safety.
I also like to explore the limits so that I know what might happen in an emergency.
My tyres aren't brand new, but they're not crap.
So if this is the only possible reason,
I'll have to live with them unitl they're ready to ditch.
I've been brought up on front-drivers from Mini 850s
through Cooper S, Lancia Beta and Alfa Sprint.
All were pretty tidy handlers. The Cali doesn't come close.
Maybe it's a matter of being a heavier car, or the wheelbase / track ratio, I dunno.
But traditional front-driver style of
"do your braking before the corner and accelerate all the way through"
that I've always used just doesn't seem to work well with the Cali.
It's ok up to a point but then things start to get understeery.
Maybe it's just the front tyres beginning to give way, I don't know.
It just feels different to me than what I'd get with (say) the Beta.
I've tried simultaneous left-foot braking and acceleration to squat the front with limited success,
but this is illegal here and none too kind on the driveshafts, CVs and gearbox etc.
Suspension all looks ok, compression / rebound test is ok,
but maybe the wishbone bushes are worth a bit of a look.
I know that a poorly seated oil filter has leaked a bit over the RHS ones in the past,
this might have damaged the rubber, dunno.
Must investigate further...
Thanks for the feedback guys.
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davamb
Hi. In my time on the roads I have "experiemented" many a time with the extreme handling of a car. Understeer....? Firstly are you talking about in the wet or the dry? I can tell you that when I am driving fast in my Calibra, I do my breaking before the corner, but I will usually slot it into a gear which will hold things quite tight round the corner (I also use this for gear braking). I will not usually accellerate all the way through the corner, but mostly on exit. Essentially I will start to accellerate when I can judge that even with a little understeer my car will end up safely out of the bend. To be honest I think accellerating is something you will generally only get away with more in a rear wheel drive, a very good handling front wheel drive, or a four wheel drive. The poor front wheels having to cope with both turn in and power can be a little too much. The best way to test driving styles is in the wet. Everything is at much more extremes! Try accellerating round a bend then... if you are fortunate enough to have traction control, you will see it going mad.
Lowered stiffend suspension with low profile tyres will work wonders in the dry, but will be even worse in the wet generally. Don't let that stop you getting them though
.
I could go on all day on this subject but I hope this has helped a bit. Just be as progressive and smooth with everything you do and you'll get a lot more grip. Save your power for the straights! [img]/biggrin.gif[/img]
Lowered stiffend suspension with low profile tyres will work wonders in the dry, but will be even worse in the wet generally. Don't let that stop you getting them though
.
I could go on all day on this subject but I hope this has helped a bit. Just be as progressive and smooth with everything you do and you'll get a lot more grip. Save your power for the straights! [img]/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Maverick
Hey Matt,
thanks for the comments. I'll try and address them all:
I'm talking about the dry, wet I don't really have a problem with. At the limit you can use the throttle to break front traction at the point where the rear is just starting to let go and get a 4-wheel drift going. Nice. Again this is only in conditions where it's safe to do so - I'm not a hoon (dunno the Pom equivalent). But anywhere up to that limit, the vehicle is predictable and has an acceptable limit of grip and handling.
I think I might have given the impression that I scream up to a corner, stand the car on it's nose and then gas it all the way through, no so. I drive much like you say, trying to be smooth and keep the car stable at all times. When I say I accelerate through the corner, the level of acceleration is not high. It's easy to judge what will get you all the way round without coming to grief.
To go to extremes, and I'm sure this isn't what you mean, but I'm not interested in wimping around corners and then breaking lightspeed down the 'straights', I like a car to perform without driving illegally or dangerously. This means it has to have decent acceleration and good steering, cornering and braking capabilities. As I mentioned, my earlier front drivers seemed to be better than the Cali. Maybe it's my memory flattering them - dunno. I'm beginning to think that if I want a better handler - go and buy something else! Miata / MX5 or something like that is about all that I could fit in my budget.
thanks for the comments. I'll try and address them all:
I'm talking about the dry, wet I don't really have a problem with. At the limit you can use the throttle to break front traction at the point where the rear is just starting to let go and get a 4-wheel drift going. Nice. Again this is only in conditions where it's safe to do so - I'm not a hoon (dunno the Pom equivalent). But anywhere up to that limit, the vehicle is predictable and has an acceptable limit of grip and handling.
I think I might have given the impression that I scream up to a corner, stand the car on it's nose and then gas it all the way through, no so. I drive much like you say, trying to be smooth and keep the car stable at all times. When I say I accelerate through the corner, the level of acceleration is not high. It's easy to judge what will get you all the way round without coming to grief.
To go to extremes, and I'm sure this isn't what you mean, but I'm not interested in wimping around corners and then breaking lightspeed down the 'straights', I like a car to perform without driving illegally or dangerously. This means it has to have decent acceleration and good steering, cornering and braking capabilities. As I mentioned, my earlier front drivers seemed to be better than the Cali. Maybe it's my memory flattering them - dunno. I'm beginning to think that if I want a better handler - go and buy something else! Miata / MX5 or something like that is about all that I could fit in my budget.
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davamb
Hi! Yeah some good points made there. Bythe way I am not contending, just discussing really and sharing views. To be honest I think Calibra's handle pretty well for their weight. I only need compare my current car to my old Ford Orion I had which only weighed about a ton. In the dry that was incredible, however in the wet my calibra probably handles better because it's a newer tighter less rugged car. There is a little more play and flex in the tyres and suspensio etc, so it's not so quick to jump out ofplace in the wet. My calibra flops a little more round the bends that I would like which is the reason I may get lowered suspension. If you drive it smooth and put it into a single bend well it gives some great results, however through a series of bends left right left right it can get a little out of shape. I have never liked that much, but to be honest I don't drive very often to the point where this happens.
I have heard the phrase used against calibra's before, that thehandling is a little wooden. I think with the new cars we have on our roads these days to be honest for their weight you cannot ask too much more. If the standard handling does not quite meet your needs I don't think it takes much to get them handling a little better, even if simply to replace the suspension with new stuff. I myself will probably eventually lower my car, but to be honest I am quite fussy about the handling of a car I like to have fun in. There is nothing wrong with my cars ride at all though to be honest, and that is on 10 year old suspension. The v6 itself is no doubt likely built as the most luxy of the models, and I THINK that is the same model you have from your sig... right?
I wasn't jumping to any comclusions about your driving style, but I think my general opinion of a car this size and weight is you cannot drive them like a saxo I guess lol! You definitely have to ease her into the bends a little first as you will just plough off the road otherwise. Unless of course you lower and stiffen the suspension and widen the wheels which not only makes a calibra look great, but it will handle much better in the dry. Lets face it, I don't think there's hardly a single modded car on the road that you don't have to watch it a bit in the wet. Low profile, squared off tyres are simply not suited to the rain as there is a much bigger chance of aquaplaining and there is just no play... it's all or nothing.
I would stick with the car mate. Especially if you have a v6 or 4x4 because you will either have traction control or 4 wheel drive. Either one makes wet weather driving much safer! I think they are a stunning looking car, but I guess they will never be very nimble. Just remember when you are powering past all of the little saxo's and fiesta's on the big old motorways feeling nice and stable [img]/biggrin.gif[/img] .
I have heard the phrase used against calibra's before, that thehandling is a little wooden. I think with the new cars we have on our roads these days to be honest for their weight you cannot ask too much more. If the standard handling does not quite meet your needs I don't think it takes much to get them handling a little better, even if simply to replace the suspension with new stuff. I myself will probably eventually lower my car, but to be honest I am quite fussy about the handling of a car I like to have fun in. There is nothing wrong with my cars ride at all though to be honest, and that is on 10 year old suspension. The v6 itself is no doubt likely built as the most luxy of the models, and I THINK that is the same model you have from your sig... right?
I wasn't jumping to any comclusions about your driving style, but I think my general opinion of a car this size and weight is you cannot drive them like a saxo I guess lol! You definitely have to ease her into the bends a little first as you will just plough off the road otherwise. Unless of course you lower and stiffen the suspension and widen the wheels which not only makes a calibra look great, but it will handle much better in the dry. Lets face it, I don't think there's hardly a single modded car on the road that you don't have to watch it a bit in the wet. Low profile, squared off tyres are simply not suited to the rain as there is a much bigger chance of aquaplaining and there is just no play... it's all or nothing.
I would stick with the car mate. Especially if you have a v6 or 4x4 because you will either have traction control or 4 wheel drive. Either one makes wet weather driving much safer! I think they are a stunning looking car, but I guess they will never be very nimble. Just remember when you are powering past all of the little saxo's and fiesta's on the big old motorways feeling nice and stable [img]/biggrin.gif[/img] .
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Maverick
ive got a 4x4 turbo, but when you flick it into 2 wheel drive you get bags of understeer. goodyear tyres helped an awful lot in killing understeer, but i think that killing front end weight (moving the CofG backwards) would prevent understeer to a great degree. i think a carbon bonnet and fibreglass wings could be a good solution, but its just a theory. dry sump anyone? [img]/smile.gif[/img]
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Thanks for the feedback guys,
As you say Matt, can't get blood out of a stone. The Mini and Beta and Sprint were all pretty well square (track close to wheelbase) and you can't beat that for nimble handling. Cali's high speed stability is fine and I guess I've just got to lump it. Macpherson struts are no substitute for upper and lower wishbones for geometry control and it's a heavy car and most of the mass is up front.
Now if only you could move the mass - ummm a mid-engined Cali. Now there's an idea. Wouldn't be any back seats, but who cares. Hell, Zagato did it with the Sprint and GTV6 motor and (over here in Aus) there's the Ducatolo with a 5litre Holden V8 mounted amidships in a Sprint shell.
Better go and take my medicine and have a lie down.
As you say Matt, can't get blood out of a stone. The Mini and Beta and Sprint were all pretty well square (track close to wheelbase) and you can't beat that for nimble handling. Cali's high speed stability is fine and I guess I've just got to lump it. Macpherson struts are no substitute for upper and lower wishbones for geometry control and it's a heavy car and most of the mass is up front.
Now if only you could move the mass - ummm a mid-engined Cali. Now there's an idea. Wouldn't be any back seats, but who cares. Hell, Zagato did it with the Sprint and GTV6 motor and (over here in Aus) there's the Ducatolo with a 5litre Holden V8 mounted amidships in a Sprint shell.
Better go and take my medicine and have a lie down.
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davamb
<!--QuoteBegin-davamb+--><div class='quotetop'>(davamb)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thanks for the feedback guys,
As you say Matt, can't get blood out of a stone. The Mini and Beta and Sprint were all pretty well square (track close to wheelbase) and you can't beat that for nimble handling. Cali's high speed stability is fine and I guess I've just got to lump it. Macpherson struts are no substitute for upper and lower wishbones for geometry control and it's a heavy car and most of the mass is up front.
Now if only you could move the mass - ummm a mid-engined Cali. Now there's an idea. Wouldn't be any back seats, but who cares. Hell, Zagato did it with the Sprint and GTV6 motor and (over here in Aus) there's the Ducatolo with a 5litre Holden V8 mounted amidships in a Sprint shell.
Better go and take my medicine and have a lie down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha ha LOL... either that or get a 4x4 mate! I was very impressed with my bro's calibra's handling the other night. Didn't realise you could get that out of a Calibra. His is lowered with wider tyres but still I was impressed! [img]/biggrin.gif[/img]
As you say Matt, can't get blood out of a stone. The Mini and Beta and Sprint were all pretty well square (track close to wheelbase) and you can't beat that for nimble handling. Cali's high speed stability is fine and I guess I've just got to lump it. Macpherson struts are no substitute for upper and lower wishbones for geometry control and it's a heavy car and most of the mass is up front.
Now if only you could move the mass - ummm a mid-engined Cali. Now there's an idea. Wouldn't be any back seats, but who cares. Hell, Zagato did it with the Sprint and GTV6 motor and (over here in Aus) there's the Ducatolo with a 5litre Holden V8 mounted amidships in a Sprint shell.
Better go and take my medicine and have a lie down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha ha LOL... either that or get a 4x4 mate! I was very impressed with my bro's calibra's handling the other night. Didn't realise you could get that out of a Calibra. His is lowered with wider tyres but still I was impressed! [img]/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Maverick
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